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Thread: wheel backspacing/offset & general info

  1. #1
    n00b Oswego's Avatar
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    wheel backspacing/offset & general info

    I searched around in here and noticed we didn't have anything so here is my attempt at stealing and piecing some info together I found.

    Wheels are probably one of the least understood and yet most important part of your 4x4's drive system. Most of the time, people choose their wheels simply by what design looks good to them. While this is an important aspect, wheels perform a critical function. Select the wrong one for your application and you could create a vehicle that's miserable to drive, or worse yet, cause an accident. From the basics of choosing the right size for your tires to the critical elements of load ratings and construction type, there are plenty of opportunities to get it wrong. That's why we'll spend the next few pages sharing tips with you that will help you find the wheels that are right for the function of your vehicle.

    Material and Construction
    For the most part, wheels are made from steel or aluminum. Steel was once favored for its low cost and high strength. For four-wheeling, it offers one huge advantage: When you smack a rock, the wheel bends instead of breaking. Of course, the wheel will need to be replaced or fixed eventually, but it keeps you going. If you live in a salty climate, steel wheels will need to be sandblasted and painted every few years. For the 4x4 market, there are several steel wheels available. Generally speaking, they are the least expensive option.

    Aluminum was first used in wheels because of its light weight. The wheel and tire combination rotates mass, and it is unsprung weight (it's on the ground side of the suspension system). A reduction in unsprung weight results in better fuel economy, better acceleration, and better braking performance. The weight of the tire has a much greater affect on this because it's further from the axle centerline, but saving five pounds per wheel still makes a difference. In the early days, aluminum wheels were expensive and manufacturers hadn't figured out proper finishes (and some still haven't), so the wheels became corroded and pitted over time.

    You may hear people talk about how much better forged aluminum wheels are compared to cast. While it is true that forged wheels are stronger and they weigh less, nearly all the wheels you'll find in the 4x4 market are cast. Forged is much, much more expensive, and cast aluminum wheels have improved significantly in strength and quality over the past 20 years. Forged wheels are mostly used in racing and in applications that require extremely high load ratings, such as tractor trailers.

    Most of the aluminum wheels offered in the off-road market are made from A356 alloy, and they are made using a low-pressure casting. This process uses low pressure to draw molten aluminum into the casting form instead of relying on gravity. The result is a higher-density wheel with less porosity, which is good for consistent strength and minimized chances of structural wheel failure.

    Finishes
    While it's usually pretty easy for a person to decide whether they want a chrome look or high-gloss black, it is easy to overlook the function of the wheel finish. In addition to how the wheel looks when it's new, the finish dictates how much work you'll have to do to do keep it looking nice. While chrome and paint are your choices for steel wheels, here are the more common finishes for aluminum, with the pros and cons.

    Chrome: One of the easiest finishes to maintain, chromed aluminum gives you the advantage of an aluminum wheel with a bright shine that is easy to clean and maintain. This finish is mirror-like, and it resists corrosion and pitting. Lower-quality chrome can crack and chip over years of exposure to rough elements.

    Polished: This is another bright finish, but isn't quite mirror-like. It's often considered a more refined look. Drawbacks are that it requires regular cleaning and polishing to maintain a bright finish, but the advantage is that it can always be brought back to the original finish.

    Powdercoat: This provides a range of color options with a highly durable finish. It is very easy to maintain and it resists scratches, corrosion, and pitting. Popular colors today are black, silver, and shades of gray. However, powdercoat can come in virtually any color, and in some cases it may be more affordable than paint.

    Clearcoat: A finish that got a bad rap in the '80s (some OE wheels had their clearcoat crack and peel after a few years), a clearcoat is a protective coat over a color or the natural aluminum material. A high-quality clearcoat is easy to clean and resists corrosion and pitting. Paint with clearcoat is one of the most common finishes on modern aluminum wheels.

    Make Sure It Fits
    Ironically, this is one of the most overlooked factors in choosing a wheel, and it is one of the most important. We can't tell you how many 4x4s we see with the absolutely wrong wheel size or backspacing, and it's because the owner didn't know what questions to ask.

    There are really only three things you need to know to nail wheel fitment. The first is the simplest: The diameter of the wheel needs to match your tire! If you have a 305/65R17, you'll need a 17-inch wheel.

    The next is more difficult: The width of the wheel needs to be appropriate for the width of the tire. Every tire manufacturer gives a specific range of recommended wheel width for the specific make and size tires. Find the chart online and use it. Generally speaking, tire manufacturers recommend a wheel that is two to three inches narrower than the tire's section width. We usually prefer to stay on the narrow side (but still within the manufacturer's range) because the extra bulge of the tire sidewall on a narrow wheel helps protect the wheel lip against debris. But going too narrow compromises the tire's ability to provide road traction and can decrease how well the tire seats on the bead of the wheel. A wheel that is too wide for the wheel also compromises the tire's performance and the bead seal.

    By far, the most difficult part of tire fitment is backspacing or offset, depending on which wheel company you're talking to. And these two ways of measuring the same thing are not the same.

    If you're putting larger wheels and tires on your 4x4, you'll need to have a basic understanding of these measurements in order to get the right fit. For handing and steering purposes, you want to keep the wheel offset close to stock. But for larger tires, you usually need to move the wheel outboard, decreasing the offset, to keep the tires from hitting the frame, inner fender panel, and suspension components. This is simplest when you're building a common 4x4, such as a Heep Wrangler, where lots of companies know exactly what wheel offset is required for specific tire sizes.

    For other 4x4s, by working with a backspacing measurement, you can determine what will be optimum by measuring your existing wheel and tire combo. You'll need to have overall tire dimensions, and then determine the width from bead surface to bead surface and backspacing. For this example, let's say that your new tires are two inches wider than what you're replacing; you will likely need to move the tire and wheel combo outboard about one inch just to keep these wider tires from hitting the frame or suspension. Some careful observation and measurement of your existing tire fitment will tell you how much room you actually have. Remember to measure with the vehicle on the ground, and compare when the suspension is compressed as well. In this example, the new wheel is probably going to be one inch wider than stock, meaning that half of an inch will need to be subtracted from the backspacing, as well as one inch to give clearance for the two-inch wider tire, for a total backspacing that is 1 1/2 inches less than your stock wheels. This also means that your new tires will stick out approximately 2 1/2 inches farther than your stock tires (1 1/2 inches of decreased backspacing plus half of the increase in tire width).

  2. #2
    n00b Oswego's Avatar
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    Width - What most people don't realize is that the published width of a wheel is not the actual width.

    For example: A 6” wheel is 6" wide where the tire mounts, but is actually 7” wide edge to edge.

    Offset - Wheels are normally designated by “offset” shown in millimeters as ET on the wheel. As it implies, offset is how much the mounting surface is offset from the center line of the width toward the face of the wheel.

    Backspace - It is usually more instructive the look at wheels in terms of “backspace” rather that offset (shown as the “T” dimension on the drawing). Backspace will tell you how far the wheel will fit under the fender. When fitting larger wheels and tires it is important to know the maximum backspace a chassis will accept.





    Measuring backspacing is almost as simple. Lay a straightedge across the wheel inside the wheel lips and measure from the mounting flange to the straight edge. Make sure the horizontal tool does not include tire sidewall. Some wheel companies measure the lip as part of the backspacing dimension while others don't. The difference is only about 1/4 inch, but it's worth knowing, since that might be the difference you need.








    To calculate offset you'll need the following measurements:
    ::: Wheel backspace
    ::: Wheel Width
    ::: Wheel Center line (wheel width / 2)

    Subtract: Wheel center line from Wheel backspace to get offset. If backspace is less than the wheel centerline the offset is negative If backspace is greater than the wheel centerline the offset is positive.

    Tip:
    ::: To convert from inches to mm multiply by 25.4
    ::: To convert from mm to inches divide by 25.4
    (or use the chart below)


  3. #3
    go shit in your hat brianr's Avatar
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    2010 dbl cab 4x4

    A+ brother.

    (gee your up late/woke up early as shit)
    Quote Originally Posted by SecretSquirrel View Post
    I'm declaring jihad on the infidouchebags. Putting a fatwa on their asses...

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    n00b Oswego's Avatar
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    Load Ratings
    There is one black-and-white part of wheel selection that you should not overlook - the load rating. Every wheel should have a load rating, and you need to make sure that it's appropriate for your application. If you drive a Samurai, this really isn't too much of a concern, but if you have a 1-ton turbodiesel truck and you use it to haul stuff, pay attention. Load ratings typically start at 2,000 pounds (per wheel) and go up. That's 8,000 pounds of rated load-carrying capability with four wheels, which will work fine for your Jeep Wrangler with a GVWR of 4,500 pounds. For your Ford F-350 with a GVWR of 10,000, however, you'll want a wheel with a minimum of 2,550 pounds. You'll find that most eight-lug wheels have a load rating of over 3,000 pounds. Often times applications for 1/2-ton trucks create problems because a 5- or 6-lug wheel can be found with a lower weight rating, and people are known to haul some pretty heavy loads with 1/2-ton trucks. It's your responsibility to check this and make sure you're getting the right wheel for your application.

    Beadlock, Or Not To Beadlock?
    When a tire is aired down for off-road use, it's possible to get so much traction that the wheel spins inside the tire. This doesn't help you drive over the obstacle, and it completely messes up the wheel-and-tire balance if you had them balanced. The other thing that can happen with an aired-down tire is that the tire can unseat from the bead. Then you get to try to put the tire back on the bead (hope you have an air compressor on board) or change the tire on the trail. A bit of a delay either way.

    A beadlock wheel is a multi-piece design that clamps the outer bead of the tire in place. In the lower photo, the tire bead would be captured in the space shown by the arrow. The tire can't spin on the wheel, and the outer bead is clamped in place so it cannot unseat. The wheels take a while to assemble, as the bolts need to be tightened incrementally in a criss-cross pattern. The bonus is that you can mount your tires yourself.

    Beadlock wheels have a reputation for leaking air. We think this might be from very early versions. We have a vehicle that has been on beadlock wheels for eight years now without any more air loss than we experience with any other wheels.

    Spacers
    Wheel spacers are simply an inexpensive way to create clearance between a wheel/tire and items like steering components and brakes. There are literally scores of sources for spacers, and there are a vast number of thicknesses available. Most manufacturers use high-grade aluminum, and many have weight and tire size ratings for their spacers. Don't confuse wheel spacers with wheel adapters. Wheel adapters are used to fit wheels with a different bolt pattern than the axles. Wheel spacers simply move the wheel away from the hub.

    Adding wheel spacers will have the effect of running a wheel with a negative offset. They give you room for larger tires, thus solving fitment issues. The downside is that moving the wheel away from the hub puts increased stress on the wheel bearings, spindle, knuckle, and the axlehousing itself, just like wider wheels. Also remember that because of the fact that the spacers bolt onto the hub and then the wheel bolts to the spacer, you now have two sets of lug nuts to torque and re-torque.

    The most important tip to remember when purchasing wheel spacers is to carefully measure things out ahead of time so that you can purchase spacers that are no thicker than they have to be.
    Last edited by Oswego; 01-19-2012 at 03:14 AM.

  5. #5
    n00b Oswego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianr View Post
    A+ brother.

    (gee your up late/woke up early as shit)
    fell asleep watching hockey at 6pm - woke up at 12 and can't sleep Off to work in 2hrs....

  6. #6
    n00b Oswego's Avatar
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    Bolt pattern, and how to measure:

    Bolt patterns are fairly simple concepts. Your first number in the bolt pattern will always be the number of studs on the vehicle. for example, the first image in the picture above is a 4 lug. Your second number, will be the spread as measured above. This number can me either metric or standard. For the first image, if the spread or distance between the two were 100mm, then our bolt pattern on that vehicle would be stated as 4x100. The same process carries to all vehicles.



    Safely Torque your Lugs:
    IMPORTANT NOTICE: As with all types of wheels retorque lug nuts after the first 25 miles & at 100 mile intervals until lug torque is maintained.

    Note: Always refer to Owner's Manual for proper factory specifications which will take precedence over the listed recommendations here.



    Quick Torque Chart
    Lug Size

    Ft/Lbs Torque
    7/16" 55-65 lbs
    1/2" 75-85 lbs
    9/16" 95-115 lbs
    5/8" 135-145 lbs
    12mm 72-80 lbs
    14mm 85-95 lbs

    Proper Tire Wear :
    Your tires can tell you a lot about the issues with your vehicle. The most common patterns of wear are illustrated above. Be sure to check the air pressure in your tires once per month during normal maintenance, and you can avoid a costly mistake that could have been easily fixed.


  7. #7
    Fuck Off AlienXtx's Avatar
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    Good write up dyoB, let me know when your finished and ill lock it.
    "It doesn't matter what it's called, anyone that isn't Keith is a douche"

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    Senior Member PSU Taco85's Avatar
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    Good stuff Boyd!

    As most people know the optimum backspacing for 2nd gen tacomas that want to run a larger than stock tire is 4.5".

    Some specs on 2nd gen stock rims:
    TRD sport 17x7.5, +30 mm offset, 5.5" backspacing, 6x5.5" bolt pattern, 106 mm hub bore
    TRD offroad - 16x7, +32 mm offset, 5.25" backspacing, 6x5.5" bolt pattern, 106 mm hub bore

    Here's a good link to mess with different size wheel settings:
    http://www.rimsntires.com/specs.jsp

    The stock rims are hubcentric using shank style lug nuts, they look like this


    The centerbore of a wheel is the size of the hole in the back of the wheel that centers it over the mounting hub of the car. Some factory wheels have a centerbore that matches exactly with the hub to reduce vibration by keeping the wheel centered. Wheels with the correct centerbore to the car they will be mounted on are known as hubcentric. Hubcentric wheels take the stress off the lug nuts, reducing the job of the lug nuts to center the wheel to the car. Wheels that are not hubcentric are known as lugcentric, as the job of centering is done by the lug nuts assuming they are properly torqued down. Centerbore on aftermarket wheels must be equal to or greater than that of the hub, otherwise the wheel cannot be mounted on the car. Many aftermarket wheels come with "hubcentric rings" that lock or slide into the back of the wheel to adapt a wheel with a larger centerbore to a smaller hub.

    If you choose not to use a hubcentric ring to center the wheel you can also use a different style lugnut. Most aftermarket wheel manufacturers recommend the use a conical style lugnut on (acorn style) pictured below



    Check with the manufacturer to see which type of lugnuts are recommended for your aftermarket wheel.

  9. #9
    n00b Oswego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlienXtx View Post
    Good write up dyoB, let me know when your finished and ill lock it.
    No need to lock. I would like people to comment and add info. Just about everyone in here knows more about this topic then me. I had to look all that stuff up last night in anticipation of getting some nice new high priced wheels so I threw it in here

  10. #10
    n00b Oswego's Avatar
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    So I looked around for 2 nights and I still can't find out how much this steel wheel weights. Anyone ever run across this info?

    Wheel Part Number: #69459
    2005-2011 Toyota Tacoma
    Size: 16" x 7", 6 Lug, 5.5" Bolt Pattern
    Finish: Silver
    Description: 5 Spoke Factory Styled Steel Rims


  11. #11
    Man, Myth, Legend bakerla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oswego View Post
    So I looked around for 2 nights and I still can't find out how much this steel wheel weights. Anyone ever run across this info?

    Wheel Part Number: #69459
    2005-2011 Toyota Tacoma
    Size: 16" x 7", 6 Lug, 5.5" Bolt Pattern
    Finish: Silver
    Description: 5 Spoke Factory Styled Steel Rims

    32 lbs

    http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/61...eels-same.html

  12. #12
    Screw you guys, I'm going home DemonSpeedn's Avatar
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    Here's a cool little site I found a while back
    http://www.myboltpattern.com/Bolt-Patterns.php

  13. #13
    n00b Oswego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bakerla View Post
    Yea, I saw that, but the guy never actually weighted them and companies shipping them get the shipping weight wrong all the time - see the first post in that link.

    TTORA has a pretty god summary, but these are the only dam OE wheels not in it.

    Before I pull the trigger I want to see exactly what added weight I'm going to be dealing with. Right now the tires I would like to get in the future are 11# over my current rubber so on a new wheel that's 7# more is ultimately a 18# increase per wheel/tire and pretty shitty IMO + Ill be going with a larger diameter and I do not want to re-gear.

    Decisions decisions.....

    The steel wheels will be for wheeling only so not that big of a deal if they impact the street ride I just don't want it to be a dog on the trail. I was thinking 16's for trails and keep my 17's for the road. I know it will get old swapping them back and forth, but I could really use some more clearance.

    My goal is getting the most function out of the smallest budget.

    and yes Rich I'm going to pizza cutters cause they are cheap and light
    Last edited by Oswego; 01-20-2012 at 07:27 AM.

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    Senior Member PSU Taco85's Avatar
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    Slap on the 1" body lift and you could get yourself a 255/85R16 with no rubbing or trimming which is close to a 34" tire. How much do your stock sport rims weigh?

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    Man, Myth, Legend bakerla's Avatar
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    I considered weight before I bought my wheelers steel wheels, I hope I made a good choice in the long run. They are heavy. I'm also considering skinny tires. tough decisions...

  16. #16
    n00b Oswego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PSU Taco85 View Post
    Slap on the 1" body lift and you could get yourself a 255/85R16 with no rubbing or trimming which is close to a 34" tire. How much do your stock sport rims weigh?
    That is a 34" and just so happens to be 11# heavier then my 265/70/17 with 18% more sidewall and 3% less width while only throwing off my spedo 3mph at 75mph

    also less then $200 per tire

    I'm tired of getting my pumpkin stuck and high centered do to shit for clearance but I still want to keep a 2" lift. I like my extra down travel when speeding in the trails

    TTORA's chart says my 17's are "heavy"

    I read 25#, but need to confirm that data

    Quote Originally Posted by bakerla View Post
    I considered weight before I bought my wheelers steel wheels, I hope I made a good choice in the long run. They are heavy. I'm also considering skinny tires. tough decisions...
    I know a local guy I can get the OE ones from for a very good price and I like the option of 2 sets of wheels. One 16" set for wheeling with a tall skinny MT and keep my OE Sport 17" with my snow rated AT's.

  17. #17
    Big tires little bed taco4x4rar's Avatar
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    I think you're way overthinking this, you're not adding all that much weight just run the damn things.
    When times get tough - fat people get skinny and skinny people die.

  18. #18
    n00b Oswego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taco4x4rar View Post
    I think you're way overthinking this, you're not adding all that much weight just run the damn things.
    I over think like people breath

    I have plenty of time so why not compare? I don't have a big budget so if I do it I have to make it last.

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