The AR Thread

[tex]

6.5 creedmoor is very popular now and ammo is everywhere

 

[tx_shooter]

6.5 creedmoor is popular but no where near as common as 308Win yet. Every hardware store and gas station that sells ammo will carry 308Win.

 

[Oswego]

The more and more I think of it "finding ammo" is going to be much harder than I may think. If shit does hit the fan maybe I'm thinking too much....

I can either

1) find it and take it w/no one around
2) take it w/force
3) trade for it

Not certain any of them are a good options besides #1 especially if Ive got a crowd of 50+ year old city folks and kids with me (my core close family). Chances are Ill be the sheep people take ammo from so might as well stretch my rage with the 6.5 to keep them at bay for as long as possible

I do like the barrier penetration that .308 provides due to mass

 

[Anathollo]

I do like the 6.5 performance much better, but finding rounds when you can't load yourself and shit has hit's the fan makes me (uneducated 'ass'ummer) worried. Do you think that .308 will be easier to find when shit hits the fan? Thats the only reason I'm looking .308 vs 6.5. I'm not overly concerned with barrel life of the 6.5 being much less or any of the other mumbo jumbo. I guess I could just stock pile ammo, but my house is the bug out location not bug in so anything I stockpile must be moved to my sisters or mothers or the property I have yet to purchase.

Ill check out the links tonight & thank you for the immediate responses.

Oh and if the end all be all rifle is at 4k I'm fine with that. Rather spend the 1k more now and cry once (stealing your own quote) than die later when the gun jambs or breaks

Ive been putting off purchase of one for so long I fear the longer I wait the less grandfathering in I can do later. Also going to grab a shotgun at the same time. Making a trip to DE so I can buy off the books and tax free w/o NJ knowing (all legally of course).

That's why you stock up before hand. But how many people are you planning on shooting if you have at least 250 rounds of 6.5 creedmoor on hand at home?

Also, the way I see it is that as soon as the SHTF, .308 is a more popular round and is going to grabbed up first. But you should never plan on being able to stock up somewhere and you should have a nice cache at your house anyways. But if you're looking for a SHTF rifle, I'd much rather carry a .223 AR15 around than a heavy ass AR10.

 

[Oswego]

That's why you stock up before hand. But how many people are you planning on shooting if you have at least 250 rounds of 6.5 creedmoor on hand at home?

Also, the way I see it is that as soon as the SHTF, .308 is a more popular round and is going to grabbed up first. But you should never plan on being able to stock up somewhere and you should have a nice cache at your house anyways. But if you're looking for a SHTF rifle, I'd much rather carry a .223 AR15 around than a heavy ass AR10.

At any of our houses a pistol caliber carbine or short rifle would suffice I assume. No real distances more than 50 yards so the 6.5 would be a little much.

Third factor is NJ gubment. I think they will take out the AR10 way before they mess with the AR15 so I'm going for that first.

I agree lighter is better for traveling and everyone has a .223 so ammo is easy to find. With the crowd I'd be with we will not be easily mobile or quick or quiet (kids and elders). Defense from a stagnant position would prob be my primary role and deathbed.

 

[Taco Loco]

OK, so I need some of your guys opinions regarding a AR10 or similar semi auto platform rifle that's great shooting out of the box that requires no mods to function properly and is sub $3k w/o optics. I like .308 for ease of finding ammo or 762 x 51. Any specific manufacturers that make great stuff in the US and it's got to be all go and no show? I don't need any frilly crap - just the basics and it will never be used past 1,000 yards because it's for shit hitting the fan and I;'m no shooter and my yards a 1/4 acre

Really have no idea what I'm doing but I'm - pretty sure I need to buy now before the elections and new NJ legislature that will stem from this weekends BS. I will never take the time to mod it or work on it and that's why I want it good to go out of the box - I am not tarded so I know if I did the work myself I could get it at the fraction of the price, but thats not going to happen. Iva had a 10/22 and the parts to mod it for 5 years and it still hasn't been touched. I want something that I can properly store for 5 years then take out and have it work to defend myself w/o issues.

I know this is a potato way to go about asking but you guys got your shit together and know more about rifles than I ever will so I figured I'd let you guide me. There are no wrong answers and Ill do my own research once I get some guidance - just so many places to start I could use some help.

Plan is to find a dealer and purchase pretty much immediately before NJ pulls some shit. Right now I can acquire long arms legally in any state w/o need for any record being kept or having to tell NJ and I'd like to keep it that way. Just the std national background check is all I need (I have a NJ long arms permit to purchase/carry).

Just buy a nice 223 Pony and save the cash for your cabin/land

 

[Oswego]

Ok, so first thing. Fuck .308. It's your grandpappy's cartridge and there are much better alternatives on the market today. I would highly recommend 6.5 Creedmoor for your first cartridge since it's easy to shoot and it's widely available.

Second, I would consider at least spending $3k on just the rifle alone. That way you have something that's quality and the few times a year that you shoot it, you'll actually be able to hit what you want.

Here's two options that will be fantastic complete rifles for you.
V Seven- 6.5 CREEDMOOR - RIFLES/PISTOLS

OR

JP Enterprises: JP - JP LRP-07™ Long Range Precision Rifle
(You'll have to build your rifle in the "builder tab" on their website as they only custom build rifles). Also, JP Enterprises is THE best AR manufacturer on the market. When it comes time that I can afford to buy an AR-10, I'm just getting a JP. They are like a $100 more than me buying all the components and building it myself and I LOVE to build AR's.

Buy Once, Cry Once applies most to firearms. And these two rifles will actually hold more resale value than other rifles will, especially the JP.

But if you absolutely can't stomach those prices, then you're looking at Savage, Colt or CMMG.
Savage 22903 MSR10 Hunter Semi-Automatic 6.5 Creedmoor 18 20+1 Aluminum Black

As for the scope, I'd recommend a Vortex Viper PST Gen II MRAD Scope with the EBR-7C reticle. It'll be more than enough for what you need and it has a lifetime, unconditional replacement warranty. Viper PST Gen II 5-25x50 FFP

I just spent an hr building one and it came in at 4,700 w/optics which is less than I was thinking as all the options kept coming up. I was assuming a budget of 3k on the rifle and 2k on optics.

I like the ease of their state compliant build system but they should just black out all the stuff we can't get vs lightly cloud over it so we can still see how much our state blows I freaking H8 NJ w/the pinned muzzles and fixed stock bullcrap.

Just buy a nice 223 Pony and save the cash for your cabin/land

That's always my only hesitation to spend anything. The more I spend now the longer that will take and the longer Ill have to work for douchecanoes

 

[tx_shooter]

At any of our houses a pistol caliber carbine or short rifle would suffice I assume. No real distances more than 50 yards so the 6.5 would be a little much.

Third factor is NJ gubment. I think they will take out the AR10 way before they mess with the AR15 so I'm going for that first.

I agree lighter is better for traveling and everyone has a .223 so ammo is easy to find. With the crowd I'd be with we will not be easily mobile or quick or quiet (kids and elders). Defense from a stagnant position would prob be my primary role and deathbed.

This is a not a popular opinion; but when SHTF the scavengers will survive. Be prepared to use whatever weapon has ammo. Do not get anchored to a fancy rig without ammo. Be prepared to use whatever has ammo. That said; it is hard to beat a 5.56 rifle/ 357 magnum pistol combo. Even tougher - a 357 rifle/ pistol combo is great. A more modern setup would be a 9mm pistol/ rifle setup; lots of ammo out there and plenty of range in your environment. There are a few 9mm ARs on the market for a decent price already but the magazines tend to be a hit or miss product. There are a few setups that run Glock mags that make for a great setup. You can run the same caliber and magazines in your rifle and pistol.

Just think about it. A "long range" rifle can come into play later if needed. SHTF I am not grabbing my 300 Win Mag first; my 300 Blackout carbine is first to go.

 

[Oswego]

This is a not a popular opinion; but when SHTF the scavengers will survive. Be prepared to use whatever weapon has ammo. Do not get anchored to a fancy rig without ammo. Be prepared to use whatever has ammo. That said; it is hard to beat a 5.56 rifle/ 357 magnum pistol combo. Even tougher - a 357 rifle/ pistol combo is great. A more modern setup would be a 9mm pistol/ rifle setup; lots of ammo out there and plenty of range in your environment. There are a few 9mm ARs on the market for a decent price already but the magazines tend to be a hit or miss product. There are a few setups that run Glock mags that make for a great setup. You can run the same caliber and magazines in your rifle and pistol.

Just think about it. A "long range" rifle can come into play later if needed. SHTF I am not grabbing my 300 Win Mag first; my 300 Blackout carbine is first to go.

I think the reasoning is very sound, but Ive got no formal training and have never served so my opinions are like assholes concerning that. Pure speculation and assumptions on my part.

After I built a rifle on JP I watched a few of their videos as I was falling asleep and they also have "ready" rifles that they stock and are for budget buyers or people who don't want to wait 8 weeks for a build. They were much more budget friendly and w/o all the bells and whistles but of course not one model could be sold to someone in NJ . Prob better to spend less on the rifle and more on some proper training. No sense having a great rifle if I can't shoot it properly cause then the bad guys going to have a great rifle and Ill be expired

I am currently leaning away from 6.5 and back towards 308 or 556 for an AR. If I want to go far out Ill get a bolt action Tika or similar that's light and easy to carry all day like one of their hunting versions but those are unlikely to get banned in NJ so I'm juts trying to be proactive right now. Kinda a panic buy, but trying not to make poor decisions when I do it. I just see the NJ media getting behind banning the AR10 way before the AR15 but who knows. Every black long gun is a bad gun in their minds

 

[Anathollo]

I think the reasoning is very sound, but Ive got no formal training and have never served so my opinions are like assholes concerning that. Pure speculation and assumptions on my part.

After I built a rifle on JP I watched a few of their videos as I was falling asleep and they also have "ready" rifles that they stock and are for budget buyers or people who don't want to wait 8 weeks for a build. They were much more budget friendly and w/o all the bells and whistles but of course not one model could be sold to someone in NJ . Prob better to spend less on the rifle and more on some proper training. No sense having a great rifle if I can't shoot it properly cause then the bad guys going to have a great rifle and Ill be expired

I am currently leaning away from 6.5 and back towards 308 or 556 for an AR. If I want to go far out Ill get a bolt action Tika or similar that's light and easy to carry all day like one of their hunting versions but those are unlikely to get banned in NJ so I'm juts trying to be proactive right now. Kinda a panic buy, but trying not to make poor decisions when I do it. I just see the NJ media getting behind banning the AR10 way before the AR15 but who knows. Every black long gun is a bad gun in their minds

I would just get a .223 with a 16" barrel and a Vortex Strike Eagle 1-8x scope. It's a great setup and I've shot my 16" barrel out to 650 yards with 55gr Wolf Gold (not by choice, it was the only ammo I had left at the time. Had I know we were going to shoot out that far I would've saved my 77gr ammo for it.). So in that case, BCM makes a fantastic, reliable rifle for $1k.

But if you watched some of those JP youtube videos, there's a really good quote in there from one of the guys who said "few people have had the pleasure of shooting a perfectly tuned AR. Once you shoot an AR that's tuned right, it's hard to go back to anything else" and that's EXACTLY what happened to me

But in terms of a .308 rifle, I went to a class where seven guys were shooting 6.5 Creedmoor, two guys were shooting 6.5 Grendel and one guy was shooting a .308. At the end of the class, the guy said he was selling his tricked out .308 rifle and getting a 6.5 Creedmoor. So take that for what it is.

 

[Oswego]

I would just get a .223 with a 16" barrel and a Vortex Strike Eagle 1-8x scope. It's a great setup and I've shot my 16" barrel out to 650 yards with 55gr Wolf Gold (not by choice, it was the only ammo I had left at the time. Had I know we were going to shoot out that far I would've saved my 77gr ammo for it.). So in that case, BCM makes a fantastic, reliable rifle for $1k.

But if you watched some of those JP youtube videos, there's a really good quote in there from one of the guys who said "few people have had the pleasure of shooting a perfectly tuned AR. Once you shoot an AR that's tuned right, it's hard to go back to anything else" and that's EXACTLY what happened to me

But in terms of a .308 rifle, I went to a class where seven guys were shooting 6.5 Creedmoor, two guys were shooting 6.5 Grendel and one guy was shooting a .308. At the end of the class, the guy said he was selling his tricked out .308 rifle and getting a 6.5 Creedmoor. So take that for what it is.

I think I'm hooked on JP. Watched a bunch of Daniel Defense and similar companies videos on youtube + a bunch of review videos and none of them really impressed me besides JP. What usually impresses some kinda pisses me off when it comes to marketing bs. I also like the cash/check/money order only sales and 8 week wait ~ if you can run a company like that you are selling a good product ~ it simply speaks for itself. Going to do a little more research but my mind is 90% made up at this point. JP will get the sale. Coming from a guy like you + the reviews Ive seen + their business tact + their service and break in videos all point to one common theme - just buy one

 

[Anathollo]

I think I'm hooked on JP. Watched a bunch of Daniel Defense and similar companies videos on youtube + a bunch of review videos and none of them really impressed me besides JP. What usually impresses some kinda pisses me off when it comes to marketing bs. I also like the cash/check/money order only sales and 8 week wait ~ if you can run a company like that you are selling a good product ~ it simply speaks for itself. Going to do a little more research but my mind is 90% made up at this point. JP will get the sale. Coming from a guy like you + the reviews Ive seen + their business tact + their service and break in videos all point to one common theme - just buy one

Good to hear! Thank God you've seen the light! Buy once, cry once.
Make sure you spec out their Armageddon trigger as well. It's amazing. If you have any questions, just call em up and ask.

I will say that I wish I had bought a JP from the get-go. I certainly would've saved money in the long run. BUT I am glad I didn't because I got to play around and experiment, i.e. waste a shit ton of money, on stuff that I ended up changing or modifying and now I'm happy with my setups.

 

[tx_shooter]

Just dont forget to spend money on ammo and training. A well built rig is worthless if you do not get a foundation on how to use it.

But yeah; +1 for JP. -1 to @Anathollo for raping another bank account

 

[Oswego]

Yea, my pistol control has never been good, but last year in RI I spent a day training at a range and was amazed at all the piss poor habits I had. Rifle Ill have even more bad habits is my guess. I know a couple range instructors from local PD's I need to reach out to someday and see who they can recommend locally to get my skills better. One of them is the only reason I got my XDSA .40 and he owes me now that the .40 is basically a dead caliber

 

[tx_shooter]

I am not a big fan of a 9mm but modern hollow points have made it an effective round. If I knew I was going to a gun fight I would take a rifle; but for daily carry my XD 9mm does a good job.

 

[Anathollo]

Just dont forget to spend money on ammo and training. A well built rig is worthless if you do not get a foundation on how to use it.

But yeah; +1 for JP. -1 to @Anathollo for raping another bank account

I see that as a +1 for me

But yes, go take some classes. They are an absolute ton of fun and you'll meet some great people in your area.

 

[Anathollo]

I got this guy in the mail last night! Rainier Arms Ultramatch 12.5" 6.5 Grendel barrel. I already have an SLR adjustable gas block and a gas tube from another build for this. Over the next two months, I'll buy an upper, SLR hand guard and Dead Air muzzle brake for it.

I'm still looking at optics for this upper. I've been looking at the Trijicon 1-8x FFP and the Atibal 1-10x FFP scope.

 

[Anathollo]

This is why I prefer DI AR's over piston AR's.

VS

 

[Oswego]

Order submitted. Now I just need to find a FFL and get my check in the mail once they get me a invoice. I didn't even bother calling them to see about the mags ~ Didn't want to waste their valuable time + I'm in PA every weekday and can get anything I want there.

 

[Oswego]

My bought not built order starts today & check goes in the mail tomorrow. Feel like a giddy kid that just got a new toy and I'm 2 months out

Their website has some bugs so if I hadn't called today the order could of been in purgatory for some time. Calling and talking to JP is the best regardless of what their website says and that's per one of the pro's.

I could care less about their website - that's not why I'm going to them. Most of the specialty fabricators I deal with in my day job don't even have websites and I'm fine with that as well. I'd rather they focus on quality under their roof vs web bs anyhow. Heck one of my specialty sheet metal fabricators only accepts orders via fax. They don't even have computers. Just sheers, breaks, rollers, and welders.......+ about 10 old TV's playing 80's porn non stop in the shop.