The Home Improvement Thread

[CowboyTaco]

Roof is approx. 1.5 years old.

The cost of the electric bill is not a killer, but if install cost is roughly the same as increase in value then it would make sense to eliminate that bill.

The power company here, JacksonEMC endorses it, and I think they do buy back energy that you can put back into the grid. Obviously, I would call and talk to them before doing anything.

 

[Oswego]

Anything anyone "tells" you get in writing.

If.....and I say "if" strongly I was going to consider solar while I was already on the grid I'd take out a home equity loan and buy it myself then write off the interest. No way would I want any of the morons I see on a daily basis touching the electric in my house and no way I'd hook up with anyone marketing rebates. I'd do all the paperwork myself and hire a company myself. I also work construction for a living so I feel more confident than most would managing the project and even then I might hire a CM to watch over everything.

 

[TacoXpo]

Ok, so let's talk about Solar panels for a moment.

I'm seeing estimated figures of $18-25k for parts and install, but have not gotten any official quotes. My electric company offers an incentive/rebate of $450 per kWh up to 10 kWhs. Based on estimates from automated systems that look at your roof lines from satellite images, I can get an 8.4kWh system, which equates to $3,780 in rebates. There looks to also be some federal incentives for it as well. If I'm reading it right, and I'm probably not, it looks like I can get 26% of the cost back in tax credits. (source: DSIRE)

My average electric bill is $100 and the 8.4kWh system would provide 107% of my current usage. I also have 3 kids and I expect the usage to go up as they get older. That said, I could (in theory) eliminate my electric bill. Obviously, some months I would be providing power back to the grid and others I would need to pull excess power from the power company.

I've see figures that a solar system can increase the value of a home by $25k. Is that an accurate number? I'm actually thinking that @TacoXpo might be the best person to answer the question.

If I spend an average of $1200 per year in electric, it would take me 15 years to save $18k. I'm hoping to get a house with more land before that time period. I figure we'll either move before my daughter starts real school (roughly 2-3 years from now) or wait until the kids are out of school unless a major job change happens. It obviously makes sense to do it now based on the rebates and incentives if you plan to live in the house for a while. But would it be a worth-while investment if you plan to sell or rent the house in a few years? i.e. Does it really increase the value of the home? If so, is it really equivalent the rough cost of initial purchase?

Increase value of the home, the data is still building. Currently, (GROSS Generalization) unless there are 3 comps that fall into the same category of home, 80%-120% sq ft, adjustments for bed (not much maybe $1200-2000 per additional bedroom as long as it is functional) plus a bunch of other qualifiers - don't have the time right now. ... AND they have the same - If you own them, the other comps have to own them, etc, to show that their is true comparative value. Otherwise they have even been ignored by appraisers.

 

[CowboyTaco]

Increase value of the home, the data is still building. Currently, (GROSS Generalization) unless there are 3 comps that fall into the same category of home, 80%-120% sq ft, adjustments for bed (not much maybe $1200-2000 per additional bedroom as long as it is functional) plus a bunch of other qualifiers - don't have the time right now. ... AND they have the same - If you own them, the other comps have to own them, etc, to show that their is true comparative value. Otherwise they have even been ignored by appraisers.

So the consensus there is not to do it unless you plan to be in the house for 15+ years because it isn't a big value add. Am I reading that right?

 

[tex]

So the consensus there is not to do it unless you plan to be in the house for 15+ years because it isn't a big value add. Am I reading that right?

I read his post that unless there are comps with solar then there is no way to really show it adds anything and that some appraisers skip over solar all together.

 

[Oswego]

So the consensus there is not to do it unless you plan to be in the house for 15+ years because it isn't a big value add. Am I reading that right?

If you do choose to do it - the installers and materials are key and vary greatly. Very hard to compare apples to apples quotes unless you write the specifications that goes out to bid and only someone in the know can do that.

Please also consider (solar guys will prob not tell you) that solar panels degrade and lose efficiency over time and some super quick so what you get out of them in year 1 vs year 15 is going to be a HUGE difference thus throwing off any cost analysis you have done.

 

[CowboyTaco]

If the install cost $20k up front. With the 26% tax incentive and the rebate from the electric company, my "out the door" cost would be closer to $11k. It would only take roughly 10 years to pay that off.

 

[Oswego]

By year ten plan on losing at minimum 10% efficiency

and remember - nothing is free in life. that said - I pay enough taxes that I'm pissed I didn't jump on NJ's solar rebates way back in the day. They were basically using taxpayer money to subsidize them for free.

 

[Anathollo]

If the install cost $20k up front. With the 26% tax incentive and the rebate from the electric company, my "out the door" cost would be closer to $11k. It would only take roughly 10 years to pay that off.

"I'm hoping to get a house with more land before that time period. I figure we'll either move before my daughter starts real school (roughly 2-3 years from now) or wait until the kids are out of school unless a major job change happens."

Based off what you posted earlier, you should save that $11k or $20k or however much you'll spend on installing solar and put that towards a house with land. Think of your current house as something you are "renting" by spending the least amount of money on it as possible while saving as much as possible to put towards your dream house/property. Once you buy your dream home, then you can go crazy with spec'ing it out.

 

[Oswego]

This......100%.

Lord knows I'm all about liquidity right now "in these uncertain times" and most of you helped talk me into it

Screw debt - keep that bank account rising

 

[TacoXpo]

So the consensus there is not to do it unless you plan to be in the house for 15+ years because it isn't a big value add. Am I reading that right?

YES - until we get enough data. We may find that there is a distinct dollar value spread - we just don't have the data. Bottom line is that people will pay for anything what they feel something is worth on that day. What will they pay for that after the luster is lost? When they compare alternatives, what is it worth to them.

I see homes with 6" studs or alternating studs with 6"+ walls, and amazing upgrades that sell - or should I say cost much more. Once the home is 10 years old, people will compare them with homes that don't have any of those upgrades. Some of the 'smartest' people buy the dumbest things! - I love solar - just not sure it's worth it for some people. Sadly I've seen Seniors get hosed by a slick sales guys.

 

[CowboyTaco]

Please also consider (solar guys will prob not tell you) that solar panels degrade and lose efficiency over time and some super quick so what you get out of them in year 1 vs year 15 is going to be a HUGE difference thus throwing off any cost analysis you have done.

I read that isn't the case anymore and that they are relatively consistent now.

 

[Oswego]

I read that isn't the case anymore and that they are relatively consistent now.

These guys have the real scoop on the industry Technology and R&D

You put something thats black in the sun for the next decade and bad things are going to happen.

I'd fall out of my chair if anyone you get quotes from has a warranty thats better than having 80% efficiency ratings after a decade.

They may give you a 25 or 30 year warranty but thats only the big print - gotta dig deeper into the small print

 

[Taco Loco]

I didn’t read all those posts above, no way would I consider doing solar for $100 month bill.

Mine is $250 most of the time, $284 this month, I looked into it, and it’s worth it, only if you install all the panels etc, then hire master electrician to put in transfer switch and set up for output meter etc.

I have a spreadsheet with all the part #’s, costs and links etc, but it’s for a metal roof.

 

[tx_shooter]

"I'm hoping to get a house with more land before that time period. I figure we'll either move before my daughter starts real school (roughly 2-3 years from now) or wait until the kids are out of school unless a major job change happens."

Based off what you posted earlier, you should save that $11k or $20k or however much you'll spend on installing solar and put that towards a house with land. Think of your current house as something you are "renting" by spending the least amount of money on it as possible while saving as much as possible to put towards your dream house/property. Once you buy your dream home, then you can go crazy with spec'ing it out.

Lots of this. Minimize your investment to the essentials where you are now to get you to your goal sooner.

 

[Anathollo]

I didn’t read all those posts above, no way would I consider doing solar for $100 month bill.

Mine is $250 most of the time, $284 this month, I looked into it, and it’s worth it, only if you install all the panels etc, then hire master electrician to put in transfer switch and set up for output meter etc.

I have a spreadsheet with all the part #’s, costs and links etc, but it’s for a metal roof.

Exactly what I thought as well. Damn that's cheap

 

[Oswego]

Exactly what I thought as well. Damn that's cheap

Mines much less....also 1k more miles North so it should be in summer.

My electric last year was less running my AC than the year prior running fans w/no AC. I was amazed when I saw that. I was thinking I'd have $400 bills like some of my co-workers do.

 

[CowboyTaco]

Ours could easily be $150-200. We have some CFL, but mostly LED bulbs in everything. Lights on timers or sensors, AC set to less expensive and not as desirable operating temps, etc. The house is also new, so supposedly very efficient....I guess as efficient as a mass produced builder grade home can be.

What got the process started / wheels turning is the thought of a plug-in electric hybrid for commuting to work. I can charge at the office for free, so I was curious what it would take to be able to charge at home for free as well. The public parking garage next to the closest brewery also has free charging stations. The idea of 40+ mpg on my 65 mile daily commute (during "normal" times) is surely appealing. Even only going to the office 3 days a week I'm filling up almost weekly.

 

[Taco Loco]

Ours could easily be $150-200. We have some CFL, but mostly LED bulbs in everything. Lights on timers or sensors, AC set to less expensive and not as desirable operating temps, etc. The house is also new, so supposedly very efficient....I guess as efficient as a mass produced builder grade home can be.

What got the process started / wheels turning is the thought of a plug-in electric hybrid for commuting to work. I can charge at the office for free, so I was curious what it would take to be able to charge at home for free as well. The public parking garage next to the closest brewery also has free charging stations. The idea of 40+ mpg on my 65 mile daily commute (during "normal" times) is surely appealing. Even only going to the office 3 days a week I'm filling up almost weekly.

I have a neighbor down the street, don’t know him too well, but he is a retired Electrical Engineer, he has solar on his house, and for the battery back up for the house, it’s his golf cart and Prius, pretty cool idea other than the Prius should be Telsa...

 

[CowboyTaco]

That actually is really cool.